This is the show for Digital Creators by Digital Creators, hosted by me, Dylan Schmidt, a Los Angeles based content creator who loves to blend marketing, creativity, and business. Join in as we explore online entrepreneurship, creator best practices, and more. Each week, I'll bring you interviews with successful creators, tips and tricks for growing your online presence, and simple insights into the latest trends and strategies I'm seeing and using in the space. Welcome to digital, Podcaster. Rich. Thank you so much for joining me today on Digital Podcaster. It is an absolute honor to have you here. Yeah, man, I'm super pumped. I want to give your value to your audience as much as humanly possible, but I know we were talking earlier, I'm a fan, man. I'm absolutely a fan of what you're doing in the podcast industry, the type of content you make, what you're going after. So yeah, man. Here to help you win in any way possible. Same. Yeah, and I'm super glad we were talking today. We had a little bit of recording difficulties. It's true. Even people that work in podcasting have trouble with tech. We're not immune to it. If anything, we probably have more issues because we're using it more. Yes, I agree. Awesome. Well, I want to hop right in because there's so much we could talk about and we don't have time to cram it all into the time we have. But who is rich? It doesn't have to be podcasting career like the Instagram bio. How would you describe yourself and what you do, kind of who you are? I know that's a huge question to ask and you can't fit it all in just a response, but who is Rich? To put it simply, yeah, man. I think the couple of ways I would describe myself and I'll have to reference as a podcaster, I have to reference one of my top guests, what he always says, and his name is Andy Frasella. He says, personal excellence is the ultimate rebellion. And I think I really try and live by that in terms of rebelling against just the amount of information we get, the amount of distractions that are in our lives, the amount of things and opinions we feel like we need to fulfill for other people, the amount of incorrect truths about us that are projected on us at times. So the way I look at it is I just try and be extremely and fundamentally disciplined in a lot of areas of my life. Whether it's family, whether it's my craft, whether it's my spirituality, whatever it is I think leaning into that helps me lean into another kind of aspect of that personal excellence, which is addition through subtraction. I know I'm sure you get approached a lot about podcasting and content and all these other things, and it's like, how many people can you help, especially if you're trying to run a business, how many people can you help for free? The answer is, like, the content is free. There's the beginning, there's your help. But the point is, you have to be able to say no to a lot of things. And I think that's what I do. I say no to so much so that I could say yes to very finite amount of specific things that help me live a very fulfilled life. Fantastic. That's amazing. Yeah, that comes through. That's just a mic drop. Just end it there. Well, thank you for coming. That's incredible and inspiring and all the things incredible and that comes through and that's what I was going to say. It comes through in your content. When I'm watching your content, it inspires me to do better, to be better and just think bigger about it. And I think you and I are similar in some ways. Someone could take a topic like, let's just say podcasting, for example, and they could just make it like podcasting. And then there's people who just seem to take things deeper. I don't know if it's like an extreme thing that we do or something, but it's like, I can't just scratch the surface. Let's really see how far we can take this thing. Do you find yourself kind of similar, like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it 100%. How do you approach projects in life? Just before we started recording, I was scarfing down lunch two minutes before the podcast, as podcasters always do, whether you're a guest or whether you're hosting. And I'm like, thinking about something, and I was like, I'm glad Dylan didn't ask me to be on ten minutes prior for a tech check. Although, ironically, maybe we could have benefited today because we had issues. Totally. But immediately my mind goes, put that in my content idea list, okay? Because how many times have I been invited onto a podcast and they're like, submit to me all these things? And I'm like, come on, or, hey, we do 15 minutes tech check. I'm like, no way. And I immediately think of something I've been through something I think could be better, whether you could be a better host, whether you could be a better guest, whether you could be better at production, it doesn't matter. And this doesn't have to be podcasting. And I just think of like, if it's a problem, if it causes problems, it's a problem. And I think you and I are aligned in the regard that that makes good content or at least valuable content. And I don't care about the views or whatever. I get plenty of DMs on LinkedIn and in Instagram that are like, dude. And I'm like you're welcome. No problem. So I try never to have a veil over all the obstacles that prevent people from doing things that I adhere to or that I found success in. And I think that's just really just a way to go, man. Just try and be an expert at your craft and don't stop. And I think you'll outlast a lot of the people that you and I kind of know just have those seasons where it's turbocharged and then it's like, don't see you for a few months. And I'm like, do you care or not? Yeah, and you can't fake that caring. You can't just phone it in and be like, I'm showing up today because people sense that. They sense if you want to be there or not. You said something that I just have to mention before a podcast recording, like we all do, of scarfing down something. When I was first recording digital podcaster, I would just schedule interviews at any time. I just had more time in my schedule and it didn't matter when. And so I scheduled

00 a.m. My time. I don't know what time it was for the other person. And I got on the camera and I was like, whoa, I need to shave real quick. So I shaved, and this is literally like 60 seconds before the thing, and I cut myself and I'm, like, bleeding through the interview. And she's just like, Are you okay? And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I just didn't think before this interview, I'm just going to shave and now I'm bleeding. And it just wouldn't stop bleeding. It was so awkward. You said something like, sorry, there was no reason to that other than like. No, man, I have to tell you this. That's so funny that you mentioned exactly that because I usually shave every morning or every other morning, and I was like, I knew I was going to be on here today, but I didn't work out today. This morning I was like, decided to just kind of have, like, active rest or whatever. So I just read I caught up on some work, and I like to shave after I work out. So it's like, pores are already kind of open, then shower and then boom. And I got it. So I was like, oh, no, I didn't shave. And I literally thought, like, lunch or shave, and I'm like lunch. So I could have ended up here with bleeding just as well, and that would have been an even better story. I got to say, though, as someone who is not that capable of growing a cool looking whatever that is, like a little stubble. Stubble is looking tight on you, man. If you're just listening, it's working for Rich right now. I'm just saying, just picture it working. You said something that is something that I struggle with and I know other people struggle with. It's been an ongoing thing for me. I would love to hear how you approach this. Not that you have to have the perfect answer, but just how you approach it when it comes to helping people. You help a lot of people. You reach a lot of people. People reach out to you through the DMs. They want things for free. How do you approach that line of, you've got to run a business, you're extremely busy. You've got a family. You've got to take care of yourself. You got to work out. You've got to pour into yourself. But there's also people that are reaching out through your DMs that are looking for something for free. You want to help them because you want to build relationships and networking and all that stuff, but obviously, that's not totally possible. How do you approach it? I mean, the content is free help. So it's like, I forget who said it, and I love this, man. I have to find it and send it to you on Instagram. But someone's like, waste your own time three times before you waste mine. And I'm like, oh, I love that. Meaning google it. Go through my content or ask someone else. You know what I mean? And then ask me. And if you've done that and you're like, Dude, I still cannot get the answer as to why. Even with headphones on, I hear an echo or something random, right? Then it's like, oh, cool. I've experienced that. But don't waste someone else's time or waste your own time three times before you waste mine. And it's not to say that those people don't deserve answers, but you've already taken the time, and you don't get paid to make content, okay? I don't think you do. I don't. Right now, unless I get a podcast sponsor for our new podcast, which we will at some point, then maybe it offsets. But even then, I'm like the time it takes know? Get what's in here onto here is enough. In my there's there's. Alex RamosI always talks about the season of no, and I just had some people reach out about a LinkedIn post I did about how Amazon was the worst place on Earth when I worked there for a couple of years. But it led me to entrepreneurship. But I was still a high performer while I was there, and I cannot tell you how many people are like, Dude, can we talk? Like, I'm in this position, and I'm just like I sent a voice note. I'm like, look, if you don't see yourself staying in that company for a long time, if you looking at your bosses and you're not inspired, and if you're looking at your boss's positions and you're like, I don't care if I would ever have that position or not, then it's probably time to go and I'll do something quick. But as far as the tactics and some of the other things, we're already taking the time, and it's not our job. I think it's more important that we actually help people kind of live up to their own potential by letting them troubleshoot on their own instead of just giving them what they need. It's like, Dude, everyone is tugging at you for something. And I don't mean just business. Like, my church needs someone to film tonight. My daughters need to be picked up from school later. The dog needs to be walked. I got to go pay this bill. Everyone has so many different things going on. It's like, just use your presence of mind and have some empathy in advance for what that person is already trying to do before you try and just pry them from something. So you get some freaking two minute advice. Just go. Take the time, man. Waste your own time first. Yeah, I love that. And one of the things, I think that I struggle with around this is especially starting from scratch, having people reach out almost feels like a luxury. You're like, Whoa, people notice what I'm doing. They're like, thank you. I enjoy your stuff. And you're like, oh, the validation kind of thing, it's like, cool. Someone's vibing with it. It's good. And then it starts to hit like a tipping point where you're like, oh, my gosh. The rate to continue and improve is different. Now, I can't continue on replying to everybody, but at the same time, that desire to just think so much, and that's been my new thing, is just keeping it really short but acknowledging it too, because totally, I'm not personally getting so much that it's impossible to keep up with, sure. But at the same time, I'm introverted, and social situations drain me most of the time for a simple response. Although podcasts to me, don't something about the structure of them. But I agree with you a million. I'm the same, really. Even the DM say one thing. Sorry, if you don't mind, man. No, please don't interrupt. It's so rude to interrupt the host, but I want to make it say rich. I'm just kidding. Sorry. Go ahead. I just want to be super clear, and I think you're the same. Like, you captured it a little bit better. We're not against the engagement, you know what I'm saying? But at some point, as a business owner, I know you know exactly who you are put here to help. I know the same. Right. And it's not a waste to serve people who don't fit that kind of avatar or ideal customer profile or whatever, but I always have to work towards that because that, to me, has proven to be incredibly more efficient. And it's like, I'm literally showing you I take what I do very seriously, and I'm not interested in wasting your or my time. So let's just, like I'm just kill it right there, dude. It serves me well. Very well. Yeah. And it probably weeds out the people. Yeah. Weeds out the conversations faster. Right? Yes. I was thinking of the day if someone stopped me on the street and asked me the things that sometimes and I think there's something about the digital nature of things that makes it seem less intrusive to somebody, because you're like, oh, it's Asynchronous. You reply on your time. It's all good. But most people don't have my phone number. I have all notifications turned off on my phone for everything other than, like, an alarm. Because that's the problem with Asynchronous. Stuff, is people ding you whenever, you know, and I'm like, I want to be unreachable and reply on my time or else things get crazy. Totally. And people be like, don't you miss stuff, or aren't you not? I'm like, yeah, and that's the point. I want to miss it. I don't want to be in the know. I'll go a long time without wearing an Apple Watch because it gives me anxiety of seeing a little red dot. I'm like, I don't need the notification about know. Totally. Absolutely. So going back just a little bit, you are a Marine, you live in North Carolina. What's your credit card number? No, I'm just kidding. Do you mind sharing just a little bit about the transition from active duty? And forgive my ignorance if I butcher the terms. I'm not trying to act like I know exactly how it goes, but a little bit about active duty to how you got into podcasting. There's not a podcasting part of the Marines, is there? Not that I know of. There probably is now. I'd love to get that contract, but that would be awesome. Yeah. I retired in, believe it or not, 2015. So that was eight years ago. I retired. Yeah, that's forever ago. But I went to Amazon for a couple of years, and during that time at Amazon, I was absolutely just a wreck, man. I don't even like to think about who I was at, man. Like, it actually makes me pretty sad because I was a workaholic, which I don't mind working. I was in operation, so I was very blue collar. I led, which made me really happy. I felt like I gave Amazon associates, who forgive my language, man, like, they just get shit on, and they just do the same thing for 10 hours straight, interact and have mandatory overtime and have all these extended hours and have to work holidays, like, all these things. So there's some of that. It's like they need a leader. But I didn't look up to anyone. I didn't like the system. I didn't like being there. And the only reason I stayed was because I was a new father. And I was like, I'm providing. This is it. I work for the biggest globally known company in the world, arguably, probably they're at the tip of the spear, and it's like, okay. And then anytime I wanted to get out, I would find weird ways to skyline myself for the wrong things. It was never intentional, but it was almost like a cry for help. So I was just, like, doing really stupid things. So without going into too much detail, there just came a point where I was always looking for a way out. And on the nights that I would just drink myself into oblivion. One night I came across Gary vee and I was like, who the hell is? I mean, I always admit this, but at the beginning I was just did this, dude's such a piece, like, what the hell is know? And then I was hooked. And then I saw this one where he's in front of a dumpster in Austin and I was, what? Like, I couldn't believe it. And he's talking know, it doesn't matter what they think, and I'd have to find it for you. But it's incredible. Two minute rant. And from there everything started changing. I started kind of planning my exit. And then before I could have got fired, I kind of quit. And I didn't have a plan to become an entrepreneur or anything like that, but I continued to consume his content. I got this course called full time Filmmaker by this awesome guy named Parker Walback. I went to Vidsummit. I bought cameras with money I didn't have and I was living with family rent and and I had to swallow all that. I had an MBA, dude. I was a retired marine and all this other stuff. And I'm getting to the point, don't worry. But it was just like this moment in time where you just knew you were changing everything forever. And I was not nearly as fearful as I should have been because I was kind of naive and at the same time relieved that I had just got out of a situation that was just killing me and my family. So anything Gary vee related involves making content still eight years later, right? And years before I even discovered him. So I started creating content, and then I started podcasting dude in the back room of my father in law's storage facility in total rural Virginia. And I started having guests on who were in this Gary vee group called first in line with Gary vee. So I just started interviewing people because they were interviewed. You know, this woman know, had this mental illness and she got through it and became an entrepreneur because she started know, like little things like that, man. I started interviewing other individuals and that's just kind of how it started. And like you there is just something different about connecting with someone on this kind of platform, this kind of medium, this kind of vulnerability, this kind of intimacy. It's just better. I don't talk like this in my day to day interactions. And I appreciated that so much that I started a podcast and I kind of got a better idea later it started another one. Then I had a better idea started that one, and that's when everything really started to change. But the medium itself was just sort of this release. And I think I mentioned it earlier, like not having a veil over anything. It was just like the perfect way to kind of unmask unbox yourself a little bit and for the other person as well. And that's where I like to live, man. So that's how it started. And you had no previous content experience before that? Like, creating? No, dude, nothing. I didn't even get instagram until 2017, and I was like, all my area managers would use it. I'm like, I have no idea what the hell that is. I don't want it. I don't care. And I'll never forget, man, when my first content I started making was for LinkedIn, and it was all about military transition, I'm just like, just let me think about what I know. What can I talk about intelligently? I could talk about the military transition because I've gone through it. I am going through it. So I started making content on LinkedIn like that, and back then, it was really easy to kind of connect with people on LinkedIn. There wasn't, like, limits. I think I added, like, a thousand connections a month, and I was just creating content, dude, I put a camera on a tripod in a park, and I would just make it. I didn't care. And it started to work, and I was like, okay, I guess this is it. So I just did it. I didn't know what it was going to do or what it was supposed to do. I was just like, I'm just going to listen to this dude because I got his vibe. That's so cool. That's so cool. Because almost on the opposite end of the spectrum, I stopped paying attention in high school because I'm like, I'm going to school for audio engineering. If it's not related to audio, I don't care about it. And that dedication to something only made it bigger and more intimidating because it was like, there's all these possibilities, and it was like, all these different type of microphones and all these words for things that I got to figure out. All these things. And you coming from such a different background, going into it is not something I hear often and something just so cool about it, because you didn't get intimidated. Of course you're a Marine, but you didn't get intimidated by the jargon of gain and different effects and compressor and all these things because it's crazy. Cameras. I've seen your video where you're like, here's how you use a Blue yeti and you throw it in the trash. That was my mic. That was my first mic. Yeah, but it's just like you'd be surprised at what you could do when you don't have a choice. There was no time to think about that. There was no time to think about how shitty my Premiere Pro Edits were. I was just like, I don't know, dude. Here's the default transition. I don't know. Here you go. There's no time. You just do it. That was the difference. That's the only difference. And then it's funny. Yeah, you give yourself time to figure it out. And then it's almost harder because then you're like, well, which one is the right one? And then you start hitting Rich in the DMs and it's like, totally. Maybe the key is yeah, if your butt's not on the line, maybe it needs to be on the line for it to see quicker change because burn the boat. Yeah. And if no one's paying attention, really, I feel like that's where stuff kind of slips. It's like, oh, no one's going to see this or hear this. So I'll just take my time and make it perfect. Well, dude, look, I think you probably have had similar experiences with people you've worked with, but even people who create content right now who get into podcasting with us, we're just like, it doesn't matter what you've done. It's going to take probably a good 50 episodes before you truly find your voice, your vibe, your whatever, and it will just click. And it's like, I try and manage that expectation up front because different mediums, different things. But I could be like, Mr. Dedicated short form content. It's going to take a ton of reels before I really find my rhythm, before I like the style, the font, and all the different things. But dude, repetition is just the key to all of this. And I think this I'll just be transparent here. We used to have this thing where we had 90 day agreements with clients. Like, we would launch it and we'd have 24 episodes by them for them. They'd record them, of course, but we'd have the video done, we'd have short form done, we'd have the audio done and published and everything. And that timeline was unbelievably and massively short. It put a lot of pressure on them, and we didn't realize it put a lot of pressure on us, and we didn't realize it. Meaning, like, at the end of month three, someone would be like, oh, by the way, here's 24 episodes that we recorded over the weekend. I'm like, shit, now we're on the hook with you for the next three months because it's going to take us forever. So I realized a lot of the flaws in the business model, but what I realized the most was like, 24 episodes is nothing. It's nothing. What in your life, Dylan, happens has massive gains in 90 days or less. Like, nothing. Unless you go on some sort of crash macro diet or I don't know what, or you do 75 hard back to back or whatever it is. Dude, nothing substantial in our world happens in 90 days or less. It just doesn't. Yeah, that was a big realization. Same thing with consulting clients where they'll be like, oh, cool, we'll do this call. And I'm like, it doesn't really matter on this call, we'll set the foundation. But we have to check back in because we got to see what we say today is not the reality of what's going to happen in 60 days, 90 days? Because that's going to be so different by then, and we have to tweak it again. It's like, what actually happens? I find it so interesting how you're thinking behind this, because you've worked with big names, you make great content, and yeah, eight years ago is like eight years, I guess, but I feel like this is some of the things I've been doing for longer. And I'm like, you talk like someone who's been doing it for 20 years. Do you think it's the rate at which you've done things that has allowed you to learn more in less amount of time? Maybe so. I mean, this is year four of entrepreneurship, and we've gotten bigger every year and better clients, better everything, bigger team. But I'm going to just shout out my director of operations, Ellie. She was a virtual assistant for me just a couple of years ago, and now she's like a second mean. Like, she she can have any conversation that I would have with any prospect, any client, anytime, and probably better than me. So I think part of it is, like, the team. I'm going to edit that. Okay? Leave her out of it. Shout out Ellie. She's the best, man. She's the best. And the funny thing is, man, at this point, we've built so much more on top of the kind of success we've had. I just feel like it's not even about the employment. It's about this is something that can be special. So, one, I would say it's the team, and two, the reason I mentioned her is because she always reminds me the best entrepreneurs I've ever interviewed. I mean, the big ones always talk about it's just ten years of getting just, like, your butt kicked. So I have to be reminded very often that no matter how much I want to surge, that micro action macro patients is real. It's just real, man. So I'm feverish about just trying to make sure that we're delivering, making sure that one of our core values is be better. And it's like, be better for yourself, be better for the client, be better for the team, just be better. And I think that's what kind of maybe has accelerated some of the things that we do. But, dude, I'll tell you and I've gone to business school, and I would love to say that that helped, but I felt like a complete outcast in there. I was at USC, man. I was surrounded by people. I'm like, wow, they really get this stuff. Oh, they get A-P-L. Oh, they get this, and they get statistics. And I'm just, like, freaking the hell out the whole time. I just think kind of back to what we were saying, personal excellence is the ultimate rebellion number. Like, I just want to be excellent, man. I just want to try to be excellent. Okay? I cannot let my feelings get. Involved about the failure, about how I look. I think you're the same way. The other thing is, like, we talked about repetitions and the other part is like the timeline just has to be long, man. Nothing's going to pop off. Whatever you think is good is going to be better two years down the road. If you and I talk in two years, I'm going to be like, dude, we would have probably already had dinner a couple of times, probably exchange some business ideas and be like, dude, how can I help? Because if you're in the same place that you are right now, in two years, then we're probably not going to be in touch. Me. We're probably not. Totally. I just started digital podcaster two years ago, so this basically didn't even exist two years ago, this kind of thing I'm doing. And so, yeah, 100%. There was so much you said and I was like, oh, I got to ask him about that. I got to buy stuff about that. We're not going to be able to fiddle this in. No, it's just you're just dropping so many great things. One. You went to USC in Southern California. Yeah, so I did the EMBA. It's San Diego. And it's so funny, man. I had to go to private school, so I went there. My GI bill didn't cover it, of course, so came out of pocket like an idiot. But it was held at the La Casa Resort in San Diego. So it was like this unbelievable facility. And then from time to time we'd go up to the actual campus in USC with the La. Class and it was really cool, man. But everyone was an executive. Was. But there had been Marines who were retiring as well. And they were just like, dude, I'm like some of them were pilots. I'm like, you guys are really good pilots. I was a pilot, but I was like, you guys are really good pilots, but you have all this business knowledge as well. So I was like, I just felt so out of place. So anyway, you could delete that part. But I just don't even understand. I don't think about that stuff anymore, I guess is what I want to tell you. I think this is really important for the audience. No matter how far back you think you are, you're ahead of a lot of people just in different ways. They might be at some really awesome corporate shit job that I would never take right now, ever. Like, I'm unemployable, dude. No way I'm ever working for anyone again because I have burned the boats. Like, this is it. This is it. And you know what? If it's not podcasting in two years, it could literally be like a virtual assistant company. It could be an operations company. I don't care what it is, but I will figure it out for sure. And not that it matters to even me saying it. But of course anyone listening and myself, we like, we all know you will. We can just tell. There's not a doubt in the mind that certainty is everything. And that certainty is what started you and got you where you are today to go from not doing what you do, like starting from scratch zero to what you've created today. Working with the people you've worked with. That doesn't happen by accident. Two things. One, I got to ask you first. I don't want to ask you first. One, ellie, all the things you said about her, I know there's people listening that are like, how do I get that? Just like, briefly, do you mind just speaking on how did she get so good? I know she's amazing. It's not like but how did you have that? A lot of people have problem outsourcing and delegating and getting help. Oh, yeah, man. How I found her. This is a podcasting story. I had a guy on who owned a virtual assistant company, and I found out about him through a friend. And the guy was sharp, and it was him, his brother and his dad were running this company based out of Dallas. It's called Rocket Station. And they basically would train overseas VAS and then get them up to speed on all different kinds of industries, and then you could hire them. So basically, I was paying $10 an hour. I was like, okay. So there was many times during that first year where I was like, I'm going to fire Ellie. You wouldn't believe how much she couldn't do. But you know what I realized? And now her and I are happy to have this conversation, but a lot of it was me. I was so unfocused. I'm like, new entrepreneur, trying to figure it out. And we were a video business before. We were, like, a media company that focused on video podcasting. So we pivoted just a couple of years ago. But she was in the thick of it with me now, the agency, there was an operations manager over her who I would have a call with every Friday or something. How's she doing? Blah, blah, blah. What's her rating? What isn't she doing? So there's kind of like an added layer of protection in case I didn't want to have those tough conversations, which is stupid. So as time went on, she got better and better, and I was like, wow. So our year was coming up, and I, of course, talked to her every day, and I'm like, what is your cut? You know what I'm paying? What's your cut? She's like, half of that. I'm like, then why don't I just pay you more than that and you work with me? We looked at the agreement, and it's like, it's non compete or whatever it's called. And I was like, shoot. So what I did was they sponsored my had just I happened to have the perfect I'm like, hey, guys. Like, the podcast is really taking off. I got Andy Frisella, Patrick Bette, David and Gary Vee in the next three weeks. I was like, these know, blah, blah, blah. I was like, no one could talk about the importance of a VA for an entrepreneur better than me. And they're like, OK. And they're like, how much? And I was like, I just put out some ridiculous number. I'm like, I'm already getting these kind of offers. And they're like, okay. So I think it was like $3,500 a month or something. And I knew, dude, if they closed one client, if they closed one person from my podcast as a sponsor, the lifetime value of that was like, I don't know, somewhere of like $21,000. So it's a great deal for them. Seven X. Right. So I'm like, okay, so we did a three month contract that three months literally paid for me to buy out Ellie because it was ten grand. So I bought her out of the contract. She came with me full time, and there's no constrictions, no constraints or anything at this point. And she's getting a raise, like a good raise, and she had gainful employment, and away we went. But she says when I thank her religiously and I just tell her how grateful I am for her. To answer your question on a kind of a personal level from a leadership perspective, she says I just gave her the room to grow. I really try and say, I trust you. I trust you. And after working together for so long, how can I not with someone who can go work for anyone at any other time? And a lot of people on our team. So I just really try and help them grow professionally and just realize I absolutely realize some of my podcast managers, this might be just like something they're doing. I don't feel like they care that little, but no matter what, wherever they go next, they're probably going to blow everyone out of the water. So I think that's important. That comes from Amazon. That just comes from the Marine Corps as well. Man, like, my associates were insane because I taught them all the things that no one would tell know the things that hourly associates shouldn't know. I'm like, hey, this is what this means. This is the numbers I'm looking at. This is why I have this. Another stupid fucking meeting right now. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they actually cared. So it just kind of, like, created a culture. I'm not saying I've created this amazing culture in my own business. I'm just saying I try and just imagine what will make this the most valuable use of their time besides just the money. Yeah, that's fascinating. And the way you say that makes me think of how the best managers, the best leaders, when they're managing a team they're not managing for the point of, like, that person's staying in that position. It's like managing from a point of growth. This person, just like how you said, not going to be in the same spot in two years. But so many people fall into that trap of like, they are only capable of dealing here. They're going to stay here in this position, and that's not fun for anybody. And that's not growth oriented. No switching gears just for brief because I know we got to hop in a second. I got time, man. I got extra time if you want, since we had a little let me just look at my thing real quick. Hold on 1 second. Today's Wednesday. Yeah, I'm good for an extra ten or 15 if you want. That's totally up to you. I'm not trying to encroach. No, I have a my Tidy cal thing and whatever, but we'll have to do like a second part in the future because I got too much to ask you. Okay. What did you fly in the Marines? You said you were a pilot. Yes. TAC helicopter. Helicopter. Nice. I didn't serve, but I find especially military piloting fascinating. And I'm not just saying that mostly because the extreme presence required to fly something, most of us don't have to deal with that level of presence required. We click a button, we hit, oh, let me hit Command Z, undo. With flying something and lives are at stake, there's such another level of presence required. And then on top of that, Marines, which is another level of focus and all of the things, what do you find yourself? And it might be hard because it's like ingrained in you, I guess, but from your piloting that has carried over to podcasting Your life, I'm not just talking about the discipline, but from, I guess layman's perspective, if that's the right word, that feels like a word that's like outdated for some reason, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't really know. No, millennials say that. You're so right. I'm going to look that up. It's like that's been used once this year, I think of Checklists. There's a book I read called The Checklist Manifesto. But yeah, I think of checklists. I'm not just joking when I think of pilots and things like that. What are some things? Procedures. What's your brain like if you can share it, that might not be obvious to us. Yeah, it's like you basically answered it, especially as a pilot. I think I made content about this recently, or it's coming out soon, where it doesn't matter how many times you've started the aircraft, you're not starting it without a checklist. You are not going to execute an emergency procedure. And to clarify, like emergency procedure doesn't mean you're falling out of the sky. It could just mean you have an indication. It could have something to do with oil, it could have something to do with engine, doesn't matter. But you do not do anything without referencing the checklist. So in a like, Layla Hormozi talks about your core values should run the business, not your SOPs. And I'm slowly kind of moving in that direction, like, put whatever you're about to do against our core values and see if it matches up. However, I think with the level of technical things that you and I might deal with, whether audio or video or just even the simplest like editing or uploading or any of that stuff, we have found fundamentally that if there's an accompanying SOP or process or something that someone can reference, that's always the best thing. I'll give you a perfect example. Man, how many times have you gone to McDonald's and you might look and be, dude, like, I wonder if any of these people even have driver's licenses. It's just like the staff, maybe by appearance alone, look maybe incompetent or whatever, but for some way, somehow, they're able to get you exactly what you ordered most of the time, and this and that, and they got you the right change and this or whatever. Wait second. At the end of the day, all this stuff's going to go away. The lights are going to go off, they're going to lock up, and they're going to set it all up again for tomorrow to do it again. And it's all because of checklists, it's all because of rules. It's all because of a procedure. So I have gotten away from the fact of trying to wing it, no pun intended, and just be like, you know what? We're going to have processes for everything. Because if Dylan is someone who's looking for gainful employment and he's not necessarily qualified, I like him. I like his character. I believe he could do well, then this is the best way I could set him up. And during the course of him executing this process that I think is pristine, he might stumble upon something and be like, hey, Rich, or, hey, Ellie, or, hey, Zeki, or whatever. This part is jacked up. Cool. But at least like 90% of the work is done. Okay. And I'm not trying to rob people of actually their independent thinking by having these things, but is it going to give them the best chance of success? Yes. So checklists routines. Even in my personal life, like getting up at four, working out, doing that, going reading the Bible, doing whatever, that momentum is critical to how my day goes. So checklists and routines are something that I just thrive off of, and I think that's something that's carried over especially from that industry or that aspect of my military career to now. I never thought about it this way, I don't think, until now. Do you think it's being able to spot where the point of failure is? Because I would imagine in a checklist for piloting, it's like, this is right. You're getting like, green lights. It's like, cool, okay, this is where but in our regular kind of lives here if we don't have a checklist or some type of SOP it's like, what's going on? What's wrong here? And we can't spot where the point of failure might be. Is it kind of like that? Kind of. So it's really interesting. I can tell you one thing for sure, that our client recently we've had some clients and if you're watching, sorry, too bad, but you know who you we've, we've outlined the processes I cannot make them follow. Could do like Chris Doe always says, he's my business coach. He always says you can be like a personal trainer. You could have the fitness plan, the nutrition plan, or whatever. He's like, they got to lift the weights. So it's like, okay, we could give them everything they need, but we can't record for them. And for whatever reason we've had the last few clients, even though they have amazing, bubbly, fantastic podcast personalities, in my opinion, they just cannot sit down to record. And I could tell it's just delaying and disrupting behavior, not just time management. There's certainly nerves around it. There's anxiety behind it. There's something about talking to a lens. But if they talk to me, it's a completely different story. So how do you make a process for that? How do you systematize that? So what you do is so what we've discovered is it's like, okay, we got to put ourselves in that person's shoes, like podcasting. And your listeners know this is a side chick to a lot of people, right? It's not the main thing, dude. We kind of are playing with this brand called part time podcaster because no one wants to be a full time podcaster. Part time podcaster, okay? Like, how can you commit enough time to where your presence is full time in the podcast world in terms of episode release information, the recency of the content where you're actually spending maybe two or 3 hours a month on it because you are a business owner or because you're a parent or because you're trying to launch a business or whatever it may be. So it's like, okay, how do we put ourselves in those person's shoes and how can we systematize that? So we just try and think. We try and meet all those objections head on. So if you and I were on a call, a discovery call on like, hey, here's what's going to happen. We are going to be super enthusiastic about working with each other. You're going to sign an agreement. I'm going to send you an invoice and you're going to pay it. And we're going to be ready. We're going to have an onboarding call and we're going to have a tech check. And then you're not going to record anything for a month. And here's why and here's how you're going to get out of it and here's how we're going to assist you. It's just trying to meet those objections up front and again, it's like, just like I was talking about earlier when I was like, I just put a content idea in my content master list. It's the same thing for the customer journey. It's like, where are all the booby traps? Where are all the booby traps? And there's always new ones because every client is different. You know what I mean? One of them had a newborn who will not take a bottle. So she's literally on her all the time. So she's like, how am I going to do this? It's like, okay, new challenge. How can we think through this? Does it mean systematize? Not necessarily, but does it mean empathetically come up with a solution? Yes. And will we be able to reference that later? Yes. So I think that's what it is. You're not going to be able to plan for everything, but the more you plan in advance and the more you capture those new things that you've had to troubleshoot through, I believe it's just going to make you a better operator. It's just going to make for a way better client experience because you're going to be able to use those as kind of case studies to tell people when they fall on those problems as well. I'm trying so hard not to say anything, but I have to say you said booby trap and then you said that story. Did he do this on purpose? That's genius. That is freaking incredible, though. I just elephant in the room. That is so freaking good. And getting ahead of those things and not being able to lift the weight. Because as determined as you and I both are, and as much as we want to succeed, seeing someone not succeeding or not making something a priority that they said that they were going to make a priority, it feels like it bumps up against, I'll say, my own values. For example, where I'm like, I would do it this way. And it feels like the older I get, the more I have to realize, like, you know what? I have my way of operating, and other people have their own way of operating, and I can't expect everyone to operate my way and just kind of dealing with that, but also making it clear and fair for, like, hey, what's going on? How can I help? But at a certain point being like, you know what it is? What it is when you're creating say SOPs or checklists for SOPs, is there a right amount of information to capture? Is it bad to capture too much? Yeah, I like every possible freaking detail. And my team's like, stop. I'm like, okay, but I just want it to be so foolproof. And part of it is because as an entrepreneur, you always got to think of additional ways to monetize on certain things. So I'm like, this could literally be a product, you know what I mean? For all the people who don't want to take us up on something. I could be like, here's your podcast. Playbook for a one time something of $10,000. You'll save 30 or $40,000 instead of working with us and have fun with it. You know what I mean? I don't know. But yeah, there's certainly a counterproductive amount, especially if you never get a checklist done for a certain process and you're like, Jeez, man, can we do some of this other more important stuff? So, yeah, there is something I wanted to mention, and of course, I lost my train of thought, but there was something about the customer journey or experience. It is probably going to come back to me an hour from now and I'll just text you and you'll be like, Dude, it's too late. Rich said this. I think one of the best pieces of advice. I'm not trying to give you unsolicited advice. I'm just telling you something that's worked for me. Is that's what you said? You said it's, like, kind of pushes up against your own values. I'm telling you, dude, it's taken me a long time, a very long time to get over this. But when people don't do what they're paying us to do for them because they're not holding up their end of the bargain, dylan, I take it as a personal slight, and that's not how it works, man. You know what I mean? It's taken me a very long time to kind of get over that. I'm like, I put so much effort into this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Dude, it doesn't matter how much I've done, how much we're willing to help. If they're not doing anything, it's okay. And I believe it's like, we're not even getting a chance. We're not getting the at bats to show you what we're capable of. And my business coach is like, okay, well, if they're paying you $5,000 a month, they're giving you 5000. Thank yous. And I'm like, okay. And then he always says, Ask more questions. Let me lead you to the answer. So if Dylan's not recording, I'm like, what do you think would be better about the environment? And then let them talk. Let them talk, let them talk, let them talk. Just ask questions. Because the person who asks the most questions is actually leading the conversation. So it's like, I used to think, like, the more I vomit out the information, tell them all the ways to overcome X, Y and Z is the best way, dude, I had it all wrong. Just ask questions and let them arrive to the conclusion. Then they'll never forget that. Yeah. And then, you know, maybe something that wasn't apparent before. I found that with my business content clips. One thing I had to quickly let go of is I would nail something in my eyes of, like, an example clip from someone's podcast, and then they'd be like, awesome, awesome. I'm like, yeah. And then we get on the call and then they would tell me actually, so we don't want it any how you did it, but we want it like this. And I was like, oh well, they said it was awesome and it took me a minute to realize just because they say it's awesome doesn't mean the thing that I thought was awesome about it. It might have just been like a thing that wasn't present. Like we just liked how you communicated or we liked how you whatever and not the design or something. So there's those expectations of like oh, and letting that go is freaking tough. Super hard. It's hard. You're passionate about it and it's like care if you didn't care. I think all the time it'd just be nice to be not just dumb but just sometimes just know less. Totally. But there's a balance of course, caring and making great work and not of course, overcaring, of course. Amazing. I got a jet and I want to do a part two with you in the future. People usually say that I always feel trapped by it as a guest, honestly, because I'm like if it was 50 50, if I actually enjoyed being a guest. So I'm not going to hold you to it, but calm down. I will find rich is a marine. He's the one I just can joke with that about. And a pilot actually, wait, why don't you come to me? No, just kidding. Yeah, exactly. One last question. In Rich, in two years, where do you want to be? Somewhere I've never been, that's all I can say. It's not clear. It's not going to be here, it's not going to be at this level, I'll tell you that much. Somewhere I've never been. Nice. Well, I can't wait to witness it. I'll say watch it, but hopefully I'm joining you there. Awesome. And where can people find out about all things Rich besides the show notes? Where you'll get direct link? Sure, yeah, I mean just at cardona underscore Instagram. LinkedIn is like my first and foremost platform. But ever since I started making Pod has content, my reach is deplorable, but my DMs are up. So that's good. But yeah, there YouTube and then YouTube. I break down a lot of podcasting stuff on YouTube. We finally started doing like A to Z how to start a podcast. But this is in person podcasting so it's not like this. Okay, so it's I think really good information. So rich cardona YouTube you'll find me there. Thank you so much, Rich, it's been an honor. Thank you.