You ever wanted to be a guest on more podcast? Being a guest on a podcast is a great strategy for anyone looking to grow their business or brand. Simply put, when you are a guest on a podcast and you're doing an interview, most of the time, the conversation is all around you and what you do best. And while hosting a podcast is fun and exciting, there's something about being a guest that just puts the spotlight on you. It's a powerful opportunity to share your knowledge, connect with a new audience, promote your podcast if you have 1, establish yourself as an authority in your industry, and come up with new ideas. I've done that plenty of times as a guest on podcast. My guest today is an expert in getting people booked as a guest on more podcast. Her name is Casey Hayes, and I'm lucky enough to ask Casey questions that we've all been thinking around podcasting. I ask Casey things like, what should we know when we wanna start pitching ourselves, or someone else to be a guest on podcast? And what it's like working with someone and what we should know and think about when someone is taking care of all the guest pitching and outreach for you. So if you're looking to get booked on more podcasts, whether you're gonna do it yourself or hand it off and outsource it to someone else, my conversation with podcast guesting expert Casey Hayes is exactly what you need to hear. This is the show for digital creators by digital creators, hosted by me, Dylan Schmidt, a Los Angeles based content creator who loves to blend marketing, creativity, and business. Join in as we explore online entrepreneurship, creator best practices, and more. Each week, I'll bring you interviews with successful creators, tips and tricks for growing your online presence, and simple insights into the latest trends and strategies I'm seeing and using in the space. Welcome to Digital Podcaster. Casey, I'm so glad you're here today. Thank you for having me. I've been listening to your podcast, and I really enjoy it. I apologize. No. Thank you. I have to take that compliment. Do you mind sharing briefly, not who you are, because I just said your name, but, like, how you help people because I find it fascinating, and I know people listening will find it fascinating as well. Yes. So I support online service providers and podcasters Who want to do podcast guesting or who need, like, content writing support for their podcast. So on the content writing side, that's like show notes. I'll convert episodes into SEO blogs for the traffic. And then on the guesting side, that includes, strategy to help people come up with a podcast guest strategy because you don't just pick a podcast and that's the best podcast for you. It's, You know, you have to choose the right one for you, help them create custom outreach, and then I do the outreach on their behalf. That sounds like a dream service for a lot of us. Outreach can be exhausting. You know? It's very time consuming. On the surface level seems really simple. You know? And I like to think in, like, multiples, like most content creators, they think at first, like, I have this amazing idea. I'm gonna do this. But they don't think of, like that means repeating it indefinitely unless there's, like, some set line. So Mhmm. You know, it's like, I'm gonna have a weekly podcast and where I interview people. It's like, cool. Great idea on paper, but you gotta fill up 52 spots now for the next year or so on. It's hard to think ahead and plan ahead when someone comes to you. Are they like, what what kind of state are they in? Are they like, I haven't started yet, or, you know, I'm burned out, or what's that like? Great question. So and it's a little different for each side of the service that I offer. So on one side of the coin where we've got the podcast content support, Usually burnout, or they're scaling, and they're ready to outsource some stuff. Show notes and SEO blogs are not most people's Interest or strength. And so that's usually the first thing that they're like, how can I get this off my plate? Like, so I can focus on Ideas on creating episodes, interviewing guests, whatever it is, you know, just showing up to the mic, so I don't have to worry about all this extraneous stuff that comes with it. Which to your point, I think a lot of people don't think about when they start a podcast, especially a weekly podcast, and how much that compounds over time. And for the other side of the coin for podcast guesting, typically, people feel like they have a place in the podcast world, but they don't wanna Dart one, it's something that they feel like they'd be a good guest. They understand the benefits of audience reach, getting in front of new listeners, Using it to build, like, their trustworthiness and authority. Because when you guest on a podcast, it's kind of like an endorsement from the host in a way, helps build your visibility, And they're not really sure how to start. They're like, okay. I think this sounds really cool, but what's the next thing I need to do? And that's where I kinda come in and help. Have most of these people been on podcasts before, or they Yes. I've never been on one. So far, the people that I've worked with have at least had some experience as a guest. I think one of my clients right now had a podcast back in the day, and I don't know, but maybe a pod faded or something like that. But it was like, she tried it and realized, like, maybe this isn't really my Forte to be the host, but I can definitely guest and still share value that way. That's awesome. And how do you reach out to, say, like, I wanna work with you? Do you reach out through email, like, carrier pigeon, any way necessary show up at their house? Like, I got the perfect guest for you. Come outside. Yes. Yeah. Stand outside with the boombox, like, and say anything. Yeah. This is where it gets fun because it's like It's an art more than, like, a concrete formula, I would say. But, typically, what I include in my service is when I'll have a strategy call with the client, kinda like an onboarding call, I wanna know what their goals are, what they expect, kinda Make sure I can help set reasonable expectations for their specific business and what they wanna accomplish. It's not, as you know, as easy as Guesting on 1 episode, unfortunately, and like, oh my gosh. Now all the people are gonna come running. So trying to help mitigate that a little bit, and then we start Thinking about where their listeners are more so than, like, there is a piece where it's like, yes, you wanna connect that specific host, and there's a personal aspect there for my clients as a guest, but you wanna, like, come at it from more of a listener perspective and have that empathy And think about where they're already listening and if it makes sense for you to be in those specific places. Nice. Does that look like hopping on Zoom with them or something and making a list of those things? Yeah? Yes. So after our initial discovery call, If it seems like they're a good fit and I know I can help them and their goals are, like, realistic, not like I wanna get on 10 podcasts this month type of thing because, like, that's you I mean, you probably could if that was all you were doing, but, like, you can't guarantee the quality of those shows, is it even gonna help your business? And if not, then what's the point? Because that's a lot of energy. Like, to show up to the mic and also on video as most of us do now because a lot of this gets transferred to video, It's a lot. And I think people don't realize that, and that's something that I try to help people understand. So it's, like, Quality of the podcast, is it relevant to you? Kinda go over that in the discovery call. And then in the strategy is when we kinda dig in, and it's an hour call. And where we talk about, again, like, their goals, what they're looking for. And then I go and I create a custom email template for them so that I can start pitching hosts on their behalf. How do you talk about the expectation of a podcast episode. Right? Like, some people, especially, probably, like, newer to podcasting people, newbies. They might think, like, I'm gonna go on a podcast and it doesn't even matter what podcast. I might just become a best seller if they're an author, or I might just sell out my program if I'm like a coach or consultant or service provider. But the reality is, like, various wildly, expectations are, you know, it's the reality is it's, like, all over the place of what what the audience is, and a match, and the timing, and all of this stuff. Right? The expectations I would imagine when they come to you probably vary. How do you manage that as someone that's kind of the in between of, like, getting people booked and not when you, you know obviously, can't be like, yeah, this will lead to 1,000,000 of dollars right away or something. You know? Yes. The guarantees anytime anyone guarantees you something like that, because I'm in the podcast guesting space. It's picking up a little bit. More people are doing this. Some of the promises that I see out there, I'm like, I don't know how you can possibly deliver on that and maintain the level of quality that is Imperative for people that are using this as a business tool. Sending out a 100 pitches in a month, I don't like, even just to send 10, All the research that goes into that, your vet I'm I'm vet I won't say everyone is. I'm vetting the show ahead of time, Doing research on, you know, Itunes and Spotify and Listen notes, checking to see if they're even taking guests, how they prefer to be approached about guests. Some people have a form on their website if they frequently take guests and are looking for them. So you don't really wanna send that person email when they've specifically directed you to fill out, Like, the podcast guesting form or something like that. So all these steps to go through just to to confirm 1, Like, okay. Yes. This is a go, and it's a match for my client. Like, there's so many boxes that have to be checked to do a really good job. And it's part of the personal branding too, because I've received so many pitches over the years from clients, podcast, or my own podcast of people pitching to come on it, and it's clear they have done zero research. That's just like, I don't know, listed notes or somewhere where they found this email and I always wonder, like, how did you find this email? And I'm like, the this is not even I I don't need a dentist on Digital Podcaster. Like, you know, I don't know if this my teeth are in great, you know, shape. But, like, that's not the audience. They're like, this is Ohio's leading dentist, then it's like, okay. Like, that's great for Ohio and that, but, like, clearly, you didn't even read what the show was about. I think differently of the person that reached out to me. If that, person was actually like a little bit closer in the space, but not like aligned with it. Maybe they were like a, I don't know, a psychic medium or something, whatever, like that's their thing, but it because it's not aligned with my podcast. Like really, obviously it makes me kind of think a little bit different. I can't help but, like, judge a little bit of be, like, that just looks low quality, low effort. It doesn't it looks just like a mismatch. Yeah. And and so I think it's also, like, everything we do is branding. Right? Like, it's a relationship and trust and all those things, and it just can to me, it's like negative points if it's done wrong. You know? Yes. So I really like that you put in that quality research. When it comes to actually setting up the interview, do you also handle that as well for the guests? I don't get to like, as far as yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, scheduling, I don't. I try to provide each party as many details as I can before that, but in the past, I have done then this is like my personal Preference. In the past, I have done, like, VA work and stuff like that. And to me, that falls a little bit into VA territory just because I'm not, like, A full service PR, if I was something like that and I had all the other services that I was also doing, I think scheduling would make sense because it's kinda like a completion of that Cycle. Like, I found them. I'm connecting you, and now you're scheduled. But for me, I don't I don't really go venture back into, like, the VA piece of Scheduling, but I do everything I can up to the moment where I'll, like, provide the scheduling link. If it's like a Calendly and I can see it, I'll click through and be like, hey, client. I found this podcast. They are really excited to have you on. I clicked through their Calendly, and it looks like the first thing they have is in December. If you wanna start there, Copy, paste, send. I love the communication. I love how you just say that because I, like, just wanna highlight that because it's something that's so often overlooked. And then people who it then they get, like, burnt out. All these steps are so it's it takes energy to do. Right? And and just by you saying, Hey, I looked at the Calendly. Those little things are like so nice of like, Oh, thank you. Cause I gotta click this link, and I gotta figure out this, and I'm, like, managing. I don't have enough context to put all these pieces together. So I just think that's awesome. And then so you also offer some other services. So you said SEO blogs, which I don't know what you said. Like, you said they're most interested in the guesting, but to me, I think the talk of the town is SEO blogs. I think that's what gen z, gen, whatever, like the people born after 2010 are talking about, SEO blogs are the hot topic. Yes. That is my favorite. Really? I am first I'm just Yes. Out being, facetious. I don't know. Well, as far as, like I I consider myself first and foremost a content writer, and I use my content writing in these custom emails and outreach and stuff to match people, Like, between guests and hosts. I've consider myself kind of a matchmaker, that uses content writing skills to do that. And it's really fun, and it's very Because it's more of an art, it's like a really creative thing for me. Like, it's really fun strategizing with people about the types of shows we can try to get them on, why it makes sense for them, And thinking outside the box a little bit. And I actually had a really great onboarding session with a client that I currently have, And she showed up already. I don't know how she already knew this. I should probably ask her. But she was like, I don't really wanna go on shows because she She's like a coach about relationships, intimacy coach. She's like, I know for sure I don't wanna target a bunch of relationship shows because I think I'll get lost in the mix. And I was like, yes. So many people don't think about that and how their skills and strengths and all the stuff that they do, Like you talked about in the preshow where it's like, sometimes you just don't know what you do until someone asks you a specific question, and you're like, oh, actually, I have a wealth of knowledge about this. Let me tell you. So she came in already knowing that she wanted to be a little bit more creative with that. As far as SEO, writing the blogs, you would be amazed How many people still, which to me it blows my mind, maybe it's because I'm in, like, a content writing echo chamber or something, don't see the value in it. Someone was referred to me this week that wanted a sales and conversion copywriter because they were having a really hard time Driving traffic during their enrollment periods, they sell a course, and they were like, I'm just having a hard time. Like, we didn't have a very good launch this past launch because we weren't, Like, nurturing people along the way, and I was like, well, yep. That'll happen. And I go to their website, and they don't have a blog. And it's a place that sells $15,000 coaching packages. I think you would wanna have a blog for that At the minimum to nurture people where people can I was like, so where are they finding people if you don't have content? And I tried to look around. I was like, maybe they have a YouTube or maybe they, you know, they didn't have a super strong social presence. So I was like, where are people finding out about you? When are they signing up for your email list? Because she mentioned, like, our we wanna push traffic from our email list and have them sign up and enroll. And I'm like, well, what are you giving them, though? Like, if you don't have a blog, to me, that's, like, one of the core content pillars that a company can have. And I think that's so important for building trust and learning more about you and like your perspective and how you do things. And With all the coaching companies that are out there, like, why are you different? I don't think a sales page is really enough for that, in my opinion. I'm asking this, like, genuinely and not from a sense of, like because sometimes I ask questions and people are like, well, you you're in this space, you know, but I I don't I don't I'm asking because I don't wanna, like, trust I don't I want I'm relying on you on this, but, like, do people still read blogs? Like Yeah. Is that a thing? Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. They're great for generating traffic off Google, and it builds your your trustworthiness, like your Authority, all those good things, and people just get to know you on a personal level, which I think is missing in a lot of ways For a lot of people still, obviously, not with you because I watch your videos, and they're very warm and connecting, and you're sharing personal things, but you're also, like, tazy Relating it to business. That's absolutely ridiculous. I'll go. The best interview is over. This is cutting this feed right now. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just think I mean, I read blogs. I still read emails. Blogs can be repurposed as emails. You know? It's an easy way to Do you visit specific blogs? Like, do you go to the website, or is it like when you're searching for something? I think it's a mix of both. Like, if I have a specific issue come up and I know that so and so will have, like I think they'll have the answer to this. Like, I'll go to their website and their blog. And I'm friends with a lot of writers. I read a lot of their blogs and keep up. I was on another podcast recently, And he talked about how so much of his traffic and, like, business was generated through the website because they prioritize, SEO blogs too. So it's definitely Mhmm. Still a strategy and something that I think people should consider and think about Building up for themselves. My friend, John Loomer, he just posted yesterday or the day before about how he publishes over a 100 blogs a year, And he is tippity top and awesome at what he does and poses so much valuable information around, Facebook ads. But he does a lot of Facebook ads to his blog posts, and he has some really cool, like, hacks and tips that he shares around that I find interesting. I don't implement them in the way that he does. I would like to someday. But, yeah, I guess, blogging to me is one of those things that feels older, but I'm hearing you say that and then seeing John post about it. I'm like, yeah. It's really definitely still valuable, and there's something more interactive about it in a way than, like, Chat gbt. Like, I like AI, but I was messing with it last weekend, and I'm I'm a heavy user. I'm a I can't quit. I'm addicted. No. I it's a heavy user, But I am. Like, I use it a lot, but I I wanna find, like, the boundaries of it. Right? I wanna find, like, how it's working. Like, I integrate it. It's not like I use it, and then I I use what it out outputs. But I interact with it a lot to have a better understanding of it and find out where its limitations are and how I can, like, I don't know, just how it's fitting in. And it makes me, like, less scared in a lot of ways because it's so worthy. Yes. It talks way too much about I'm like, I just asked for this, and they're like, well, you can fix it in the prompt. I'm like, I don't wanna just and it's not what I didn't do it. You know? I asked it's like if I was like, hey. Does my hair look fine? Well, your hair might actually look fine or it might not, but, like, what you should consider is, like, maybe your hair is like this and really the best style ultimately depends on what style you wanna go for. And it's like, okay. Well, you didn't put in the right I'm like, I'm not putting in a 800 word prompt Mhmm. To ask if my hair is whatever. You know? Yes. And with the blog, not that it's not wordy because that's people's main critique is, like, I came for a recipe, and now I get a life story on this girl's 2 kids. Those are the worst. Those are worst. I I had a blogging expert, Jess Hoffman, on on this podcast, like, like, a 100 episodes or more ago, and she I remember her saying that the reason that they were so wordy around personal stories was something about, like, keeping people on the page longer, something to do with, like, ads that is being Okay. Something around that. But Yeah. From what I'm hearing you describe, it's more like if you have, if you're a service provider, if you have some type of program that you're selling, not relying on, like, ad revenue, blogs are as useful as ever. Yeah. Definitely. Especially with, like, SEO. Because if you do a little research on your keywords and then Create a blog around those keywords, you will rank. Of course, like, it's not quite as easy as that, or everyone would do it and everyone will be ranking. But It's such a good tool, I think, for getting to know people, getting to know the person behind the brand or the company. Right when I think everyone is a personal brand and, like, you can get to know people so easily, you know, you'll hop on a website and you're like, who are these people? There's no about us section. There's no, like, founder story. Like, that's the stuff I look for. I'm like, who started this company and why? And why do they love it? And, like, What are they doing right now? Like and blogs kind of help with all that while giving value. They answer questions for people. They have tips and hacks and stuff like that, like you're talking about with your friend, stuff that's helpful. And I just I don't know. I'm really I know it's like an older style. It's like blogging was, like, the original influencers was, like, bloggers. Everybody has to impress the bloggers. But I think there's still something to be said for the impact it can make if you are consistent and, like, use it, and that's something that feels aligned for your business. I love that. And SEO is something that it seems like a moving target in my mind of, like, being too technical and it doesn't seem like you're writing for humans because you're writing for, like, an algorithm. And then writing too much for humans, sometimes to me seems like the SEO doesn't really click because it's hard to categorize a little bit, I guess. Yeah. Does that, what I just said, makes sense to you. It does. That's the line I walk every day when I go to write blogs for clients. It's like, how does this sound Conversational and informative, and people get what they came to find out. And It still is you know, has a chance of ranking, has a chance of bringing in organic traffic. So it's like a line that you walk because you don't wanna keyword stuff, which is where you have the keyword in. Like, We've all seen those horrible vlogs. So it's like, what's the best binoculars to use to find birds? And it's like, I'll tell you the best binoculars to use to Find birds. The best binoculars to use to find birds are you know, and it's like over and over, and you're like, I can't. It's unreadable. So Oh my gosh. And then there's a pop up, and it's like, to keep reading or if it's like, you know, we noticed you like binoculars. Here's a$100 off coupon for some website we've never heard of. Like, thank you. How do you find out the topics that you start with? Can I use maybe my one of my companies as an example? Sure. Yeah. So I have a company called Content Clips, and we mainly repurpose videos into other content, like social media clips, quote cards, things like that. Also like email newsletters. Thank you. And it's it's awesome. And there's a lot to it, But if I ask ChatJpT, for example, what are, like, 10 SEO drool worthy, you know, you know, blog post I should write. If I ask it that, it's like how to repurpose content into social media clips, things like that. Yeah. The output just seems like, I always like my gut is like, I don't know about that. Yeah. Yeah. How would how do you approach it at, like, a high level? Yeah. I guess for me, in that regard, it's a little bit easier because I'm converting a podcast episode into a blog. So I have somewhere to start. A lot of times, I'll start with the title just because and it shouldn't be this way. Like, you shouldn't be having to think about SEO when you're recording Yes. In my opinion, that's not really your primary concern. That's all I've thought about this whole episode. I've been, like, how to In the back of my mind podcast What am I or SEO. Which one? Which title? Which title do I use? So I'll start there, do a little keyword research. A lot of times, I'll change it up a little bit for the blog, but I'll try to keep it, like, Linked to the title of the podcast so people know. Okay. Podcast episode 57 is about Trying to think of one that I did recently. It was something about, okay, wealth and money with so and so. Like, okay. I mean, that tells me what it's about, and that's what they wanted to title the podcast, so that's fine. The blog, I'm gonna change it to, like, how to use your wealth to create more fulfillment, because that's really more what the episode was about. I found some, like, good keyword reach with fulfillment and maybe build wealth and stuff like that. And then I also added in, like, a relationship keyword because the purpose of this podcast is actually a relationship podcast, and she tied in our relationship to money And how that affects our personal relationships, which was really interesting. So I try to keep all that in mind, like the intent of the episode as I'm creating the blog from it, And then I try to optimize as much as I can without changing that intent, like in the titles and in the the headers and throughout the text and all the little technical aspects of How SEO works. It's so cool. I love it. Do you see any challenges that podcast guests run into? A few challenges, I think. And I don't know that it's necessarily anything that needs to be fixed, but it's something I do try to Help set appropriate expectations for. Depending on the show and how often they release episodes and how busy they are and, like, all these jillions of factors, It might not be right away that your podcast episode gets released. So it could be months down the line. You know, it could be next year. A lot of people took the summer off, and they're coming back, and they are, like, packed till the end of the year. So When I sign up with people, I send them to my discovery call link, and then I have, like, kinda like a pre meeting questionnaire. It's not a heavy duty questionnaire. Share, it's, like, maybe 3 or 4 questions. And one of them is, are you okay with making a 6 month commitment to the service? Because that is really that's gonna weed out the people that are like, nope. I have no interest in sticking with this for that long. I just thought it would be something cool. But if you're telling me I have to do it for 6 months, I'm out. That type of thing. Yeah. So if they are like, yes, I'm good with that, because it's a yes or no box. So you click yes or no. And if no, like, we don't have a lot to talk about. I'll still talk with you, but maybe we could talk about something else. Yeah. Because it's. That's one of the first things is this a long game, and it's not something that is gonna be a quick fix for anything in your business. Oh, yeah. I I've been on some podcasts. I'd say, like, half the podcast I'm on completely forget. About 4 or 5 months go by, they're like, hey, Dylan. Your episode comes out next week. I'm like Oh. Oh, yeah. I'm like, what did I say on there? And I'm like, what did I promote on there? Yeah. You know, like, I I I've also had people come on my podcast where they promote something and they're like, it's next week. And I'm like, in my back of my mind, I'm like, this ain't gonna be released next week. Yeah. It's not live. And depending on the schedule, that's why I always try to keep it safe and just keep well, go into my website. Yes. Yes. I've learned, you know, I'll say outdated URLs, outdated programs that I, you know, I don't have going on anymore, and I'm like, oh, sorry. Sorry. That's over now. Yeah. Yeah. And even on this podcast, I was doing workshops, like, monthly podcast workshops. I had people reach out, like, hey, you mentioned, a Chat g b t podcast workshop. Oh, yeah. That was, like, in January. And it was only available for a week. You know? And I and I say in that, but people are like, I want it, but it was only available for a week, you know, so that's, like, also the thing of podcast too. You say it and it lives on, And that's just the nature of things. So the long game. Great, great point. What's the easiest way for people to start working with you? Well, if people are interested, my website, because I do the same thing you do. It's www.caseyhayes.com. And there's a free, which I am planning to leave there indefinitely, so I feel safe saying it in this recording, That there is a guest pitching checklist that people can download. It's a PDF. If it's something you wanna try to do on your own and you just need some pointers, That checklist will help you make sure that you're sending a pitch that doesn't just get sent to the recycle bin. Dang. That sounds powerful. I'm gonna download that, And you can visit that link in the episode description. Thank you so much for joining me today, Casey. Yay. Thank you for having me. This was fun.