Welcome to Digital Podcaster. My name is Dylan Schmidt, your host, and today I have a great episode with a email marketing whiz. Her name is Liz Wilcox. I learned a will Liz Wilcox a couple months ago and I've been obsessed ever since I open every email she sends out. I love how she combines 90s nostalgia, with email marketing to semi unrelated things, I guess. And it's really fun. She's really fun. And I was looking forward to recording this episode for a while because I knew she'd be a blast to talk to. And email marketing to me is a little bit stuffy a little bit. I don't know, it's it seems a little bit old or something like email marketing. No one's like, yeah, email marketing. It's always like, what's happening on social media, all those things. But obviously, there's so much value in email marketing, because you can connect with possible clients, your audience all those things much more effectively through email, right? Because it's more of a one to one conversation. And Liz does this so well. I know because I get, you know, entranced in her own emails. When she sends them out every email she sends out, I make sure to save every single one. So I'm really excited to share my conversation with Liz and here is Liz Wilcox. Welcome to Digital Podcaster. Liz, thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I love your stuff. I think everything you do is pristine. And I feel like like I put on my uniform today. If you're just listening and you can't see me like I've got Will Smith on I've got a headband. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to nail this. Yeah, I'm excited.

Eyes. It not your eyes. Sorry. His eyes are like right above the of the like. It's like just enough. So I feel like I'm being watched. But by Will Smith. I feel like I'm going to be more better. Like I need him probably watching me all day. Yes, side note. I have a couple side notes throughout this episode. But first side note is I have a friend that works in security to say that and he I don't even know if I'm supposed to say as well as you say because it's vague enough. But he was he like was the security for Will Smith's kids growing up? And because I'm in LA you know, you always have those like crazy stories of Yeah. Wow. And and he had nothing but the absolute nicest things to say about his kids. And he watched him like for years like he would do their homework with them at night and like, but he just was always saying how like, nice and courteous they were is like kids and it just always struck me as like, really cool to hear because, you know, oftentimes usually hear like the bad stuff about right. people's kids are growing up like probably well, yeah.

You literally grow up famous. Like that's got to be so it's hard to be a kid and not be a brat anyway. But then you're like, famous and your dad is the biggest celebrity in the world when they were growing up. You know, he was like really famous. Yeah, so that's really cool. Thanks for sharing that.

And yeah, and it's sometimes hard to be an adult and not be a brat, you know? Amen. So first things I got to get out of the way is, who's your favorite member of insync in why is it Lance?

Lance is my favorite nowadays. So he's, for me, Lance Bass is I'm glad you said that because Lance Bass is a businessman. So he's actually the second richest member of insync. Which obviously Justin Timberlake Of course, he kept going kept building his wealth. And fun. Timberlake you said, yeah, yeah, you might have heard he was in a couple movies. Okay. So Lance is a wonderful businessman, and he does social media really well. And he does. Like if you're interested in sponsorships, partnerships, check out Lance Bass and how he does stuff and how he does social media content for his sponsors and stuff. It's really cool. But honestly, I'm so glad you asked this question. And if you're kind of tuned out because you're not an instinct fan, like listen up, because this is business related to tune in y'all. Yeah, tune in, turn it up and tune in. Okay. So Chris Kirkpatrick is actually my favorite. And if you don't know Chris Kirkpatrick, it's no wonder he was kind of the least popular in the group. He actually founded the group. It was his idea. And he brought Justin Timberlake in, and, you know, and everybody else, but the reason why I love Chris Kirkpatrick and you can google him later and you'll see what I mean, if you don't know what he looks like, for me, he he just felt like he didn't belong. He could have been in any band. He could have been in Blink 182 Nirvana, like but he was just this guy literally standing next to teenage heartthrob like JC should say Joey Fatone, Justin Timberlake, and he was doing his own thing. He was like yep, I I created this group I belong up here on stage with my pineapple dreadlocks and my braces and my acne, just the same as Justin Timberlake, right. And for me as a kid, I was really weird. I was really shy. And seeing him up on these posters like I literally have a poster behind me, I'm staring at him. Seeing someone like that up there doing his thing singing alongside like these literal hotties, right, like these people that were so popular. And like, with the confidence that he had, it made me feel confident that maybe I have my place among the crowd as well, right. And maybe I can even stand out and be friends with and you know, literally like link arms and create something have friendships alongside that. And on another note, he, like me, grew up really poor, and he started the group because he wanted to break those chains of poverty, and really get his mom, his mom was a single mom. He didn't have much contact with his dad. And he started the business and started the band because he wanted to get his family out of being poor. And that really resonated with me, I was really close to my mom, even today, I financially support my mom and her household. And so that was something that even at a young age, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna do that one day, too. So that's why he's my favorite member.

That's incredible. I had no idea and wow, yeah, that's it. That's amazing. I I love a good like, underdog story. Yeah. And like, all about it. And like my like, like, high school and middle school and stuff. I was like, really into like, punk and like, rock and things like that, you know? And it just always felt like the underdog thing. And hearing you say that about Chris Kirkpatrick. I'm like, Wow, I'm not gonna see him the same when I watch YouTube videos, and like, see all that. Watch all those videos, because I agree. Like, I've watched I've spent like, at night, sometimes I go on YouTube and just like, go through a run of like, 90s music videos, and have a look at Chris Kirkpatrick like, yeah, right. Like he just kind of stand out. Is not Yeah, but

not, right. He stands out, but not in the way that like JT or JC stands out, like, wow, that guy's really talented. And he's very good looking right? In a way that where it's like, what is this guy doing here? But at the end of the day, like he founded the band, he, you know, sought out Justin Timberlake specifically. And, you know, was kind of the brains behind driving them, you know, at the beginning. And that's just, it's just really inspiring to me.

That's amazing. Do you think if in sync started to date, Chris, do you think if Chris Kirkpatrick started in sync in 2022, he would be up to date on the email best practices?

I hope so. So I would I will say and maybe this is an episode about what we can learn from boy bands about marketing. And so I will say in sync and a lot of boy bands, they very much keep up with the times like, I truly believe teenage girls run the economy. Right? Yeah, especially that they run the music industry for sure. You know, and run that and so in sync was always partnering. Right? They did like McDonald's, they partnered with Britney Spears for years. You know, they had I'm pretty sure they had like a cereal in Japan. I don't know, I might have just made that

leave it or not. It sounds like they always make like crazy stuff. You know, like,

yeah, like, literally on this a picture in the background is like a tag from their chapstick that my daughter, like, fell off. They had their own chapstick brand. They had their own board game, they had their own cell phone. And then when the internet started becoming a thing they had, they were one of the first to have, like, in sync comm they had their own where you could email them and they would literally email you back. There's videos of them talking about it on TRL where they're like, yes, we actually email back. Yeah. And I'm like, Yes. Cuz that's one of the things I always tell people is like, you've got to make your email open, right? You can't just have every, like, automations are great, they're awesome. But at the end of the day, if you're not making some personal connection, if you're not truly connecting with your audience, yeah, like there's gonna be people are gonna know that especially it's 2022. I don't said like, people are savvy, they know when something's automated. And when you just sent it out, right? Yeah,

yeah. And like I for a couple years, I got into collecting like baseball memorabilia. And there's some like, there's a I think there's like a crossover with like pop culture and, and of course, insync obviously is a huge part of pop culture, but like baseball memorabilia as well. And a lot of the older assumingly older, you know, baseball players that, you know, they, they still do like fan letters, like you can write them, send it to a place and they'll mail it back. And if they were probably doing email, they probably do that too. But people like a handwritten letter and they'll still write handwritten handwritten letters. And it kind of makes me think of that to like, you know, they're, they're coming from a different generation, but that staying power, they have a relevancy or people still talking about them or wanting their autograph or a letter, I think partly is because they take the time. It's not like it's automated of like, Thank you for your response, like in a computer generated thing.

Yeah, I look, I have a few thoughts on that. So number one, is the way Dylan was talking about, you know, people will actually get real letters back. So the mailbox, your mailbox and your inbox, people behave the exact same way. And so when you go to your mailbox, let's say you've got, you know, three, four pieces of mail like, oh, that's junk. Oh, that's some that's a bill. I'm going to open that later. Oh, my gosh, I don't know. I don't know this Justin guy. Like, I hate must have lived here back in the day. Oh, my gosh, Dylan sent me something. Suddenly you drop those other three pieces of mail and you open up Dylan's personal mail immediately. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe he sent me something like a real something. This is awesome. Let me open it. Yeah. So people act the same way in their inbox like, Oh, that's a bill. I'm gonna open that later. Because I know it's not due right now. Oh, Justin, I don't know how they got the this. I don't know how they got my email. Oh, that's spam that you know, I'm going to delete that right now. Oh, my gosh, Liz sent me something. This is awesome. I'm going to open it right now. And suddenly you have you know, those three, four emails totally unopened. And that's, that's my, you know, most people say, Oh, I've got 10,000 unread emails, email doesn't work. But it does work the same way it works in your mailbox when you can create that feeling of WoW, Dylan sent me something. You know, Michelle sent me something. Liz, Justin Lin, whatever your name is, right? Yeah. sent me something. That's when you stand out above the crowd. And that's when you like, really have made something click an email can work for you.

Yeah, and I always open your emails, like, every time like, and it's funny because Oh, okay. ask you this ask you this really obvious to you question. But it's not obvious to me. Um, why? Why? I, you know, I thought I was just like, thought of this question. I thought, you know, like, fumble with it. Why do I love opening your emails?

Um, yeah, I actually, I just wrote it down. So why does Dylan love opening my emails? And also, why do some of those basic going back to the baseball thing? Why do people love when you send them personal letters, right? It's all comes to what I call the email staircase, you know, first you've got a follower, then you have a friend, and then you have a customer. And when you have when you have this list of friends, right, you can create products that they need, right? And so you, how do you how do you create a friend? How do you get somebody to open your emails and be so excited about them? There's only three things you need. And this is the baseball player writing to you is the first one. You've got to invest your time in them. For Dylan, it's very clear Liz Wilcox invest her time she knows who she's talking to. Right? We got on this call, we immediately start talking about insync. Dylan knows who I am. And also I've done my research to know a lot of my ideal people are millennials who you know, especially in this pandemic, we just want to feel good about a time where we felt good. And in sync Will Smith. You know, Seinfeld, friends, Saved by the Bell, all those things take us are taking us back to a time where things were simpler. Right now, we're recording this is 2022. We've been two years in a pandemic, things do not feel good. Right? So like, why not talk about stuff that makes us feel good? Right? I've invested my time in Dillon in my subscribers, enough for them to feel connected, right? Like, well, Liz really gets me every email that I write the little micro conversion that I'm thinking about is I want Dylan I want Justin I want Lance to be nodding their head like oh, yeah, Liz totally gets me. Yep. She's so on point. Right. And so that's the little micro conversion right every single week. That's how you turn someone into friends. So number two, you have to share in a relatable way. So I used to have an RV travel blog. My audience was full of men in their mid 60s, you know, with 2.3 kids on their way to college. They want to retire and finally traveled the country with their wife, right? I am not talking about and sync to you know, Jeff, right. That was my that was my, my ideal client, Jeff or I call them rich or something, you know, something one of those names Bob. Right? I'm not talking about in sync that way that's not relatable to them. So if I want to inject pop culture, you know, maybe I'm talking about the Grateful Dead Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, you know, Led Zeppelin, I'm talking write stuff that, you know, they're going to relate to, I'm talking about, you know, fun. campground activities, those are things I would never talk about with this email marketing, right, that's not relatable. So think about what's relatable. You know, I just taught, I was telling that story about investing, I was talking about, oh, gosh, 2022 2021 2020. Like, it's all, it's all been crazy. That's me sharing in a relatable way, we all have been living through that experience. And then number three, I stay top of mind, right, you've got to stay top of mind, I email you every Tuesday, probably between like 10am and 2pm, you know, whenever I've got that 40 minutes, or whatever. And that's that staying top of mind, for my people I know, once a week is a sweet spot. You know, if you're an E commerce or something, you know, you've got a brick and mortar, or you know, a non traditional online business, you know, you might find you need to email more you might find you need to email less to stay top of mind, if you're working with, you know, single moms with special needs kids, you know, you, you have to really find that sweet spot where you stay top of mind without being excessive, or without going too long. That they forget about you. I do find once a week is usually a sweet spot. But I challenge you to you know, just try it out and see what works for you. So those three things, stay top of mind, share in a relatable way, invest your time that really comes through. And that's why Dylan loves to open my emails.

Yeah, it's true. I do like every time because it doesn't feel heavy in hearing you say, Oh, that makes it all makes all sense in my brain. Because when I open your emails, I don't feel like, Oh, this is gonna put something on me. You know, like, it's almost like you're going to it's like, it's it's a light feeling. You know, it's not like getting something from like the news. It's not like, yeah, like, oh, that many people died today. Great.

Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah, you went there, folks. You heard it. Nobody. And I love that. And that's so true. Because my ideal person right now, you know, is a business owner just trying to make it work, maybe juggling a few different marketing strategies. And so my emails are very short, like today's newsletter went out. I think it had 268 words, you know, but I actually give five tips in that email. And still, it was around that 250 Mark, when I was traveling in my RV, those people had I set Sunday nights. Every Sunday night, I knew they were sitting down, maybe they're watching, you know, episodes of mash, right? They're doing something right. And my emails were much longer because those that was sharing in a relatable way. They wanted to hear about my travels, they wanted to know where I was at in the journey, that and also that's me investing my time. You know, I didn't do as many podcast episodes as much social media. I knew, you know, they love emails the same way they love handwritten letters. Of course, we all do. But they're from that generation of, you know, people actually writing two three pages out, and so their tolerance for those longer emails is better. So think about your ideal person. Yeah, think about, you know, the length of the emails. And that's another thing that makes people want to open my emails is I think, what's their tolerance? What's their capacity for today? And, you know, if you don't have time to write it, yeah, chances are they don't have time to read it like

okay, I love that and I think I've heard you say that before because like it's in the back of my mind of you. I'm like this on my shoulder just like if you don't have the time to write it down to read. Amen, baby.

Take us to church Dylan.

Bringing the choir um, just the boy bands come out. So one thing that's interesting hearing like this, the psychology I guess it sounds like a doctor all the sudden, but when, like me, I'm an inbox zero type of person. Right? I do not like to have one email in my inbox. Like I'll either snooze it if it's important. Archive if I want it for later unsubscribe if I never want to see it again, or deleted if I just don't want it to take up any space. And one thing that I and I, you know, I fall under that millennial thing, I think, is when I get those short emails. It's like, I just need to know if it's an archive or a snooze, really, you know, and it's and you do such a great Without like, with your email this morning, it talked about it, there was just one line that stood out to me of like not needing a funnel. And I'm just like, Whoa, that that's against the grain of what people say. And you talk very, very briefly, like, it's just a line, but it stood out and stuck in my brain. And I'm like, Oh, okay. Don't do anything with it yet. revisit it later. And then like, save it, essentially. And that's just fascinating to me. Because not too often that happens through emails these days. I feel like where I'm like, I need to say this. But I archived like I save all your emails, to copy them and then use them as my own Dylan Wilcox. I later down the road, but I'm just kidding. Just kidding. That's legal, right?

I think Dylan just proposed to me

I'm taking on the last day would approve. But I save all your emails, just because there's so much like valuable information not to copy them just to say that, but just to, to learn from them and reference them when I'm feeling stuck. And, and I thought and but I thought that particularly good interest, a good piece of information about not eating a funnel. And I was wondering, and I didn't ask you this beforehand, but because you're top of mind in my inbox, and you do such a great job of staying in my brain with using email as a way that you don't need a funnel because I, I've been in marketing for like a bunch of years, like, I don't make over 10 years, I guess, digital marketing and done funnels and email marketing all these things. But like, I've done, it's pretty a wide net. So I don't claim to be an expert on anything, really. But especially with funnels, like I was just recent, like I've done, I built funnels over the years, and I just was gonna build a new funnel. And just the tech involved in all the steps, it's like, costly for one because the subscriptions to keep something going got to set up the domain, all these things. It's just like, so time consuming. And I can see why people will get so let down by building a funnel. And when you say that, it's just like, wow, that's, that's really important to remember and easily forgettable because you have, you know, funnel hackers out there that are like, you need the software and you need all this stuff. And you break it down so nicely. I was just wondering if if we could chat about that for

yes to oh, gosh, yeah. Hang on. Let me get on my soapbox. I gotta grab it. No. So and what when we talk when Dylan references funnels, when I say fun, I mean sales funnel. I mean, you know, you're segmenting all the traditional, like, oh, they click to this. So now they're going to go here. And I've got it all automated and lovely. And everything, like Dylan said, like that can be complicated. And I always tell people, like I'm a two step check. If it takes three steps, I'm out. I just can't do it. When I started my business, I lived in 200 square feet. I lived in an RV. Like if you've ever been to the woods, you can understand my internet problem. Like I didn't have time for the Funnel Hacking. Right? I didn't have and I didn't have any money for $100 a month software 300 You know, yeah. Oh, have I got a letter off.

That's just for the software. Not to mention the domain costs the game? Because you can't figure it out yourself. Because it's gonna

be right. Yeah. So I mean, even with simple funnels, such as, like using WordPress and thrive cart, at the end of the day, when I first started out, I honestly I just did not have the money for that I had exactly $0.00 support in my dream. And so, you know, I had I knew I had to pay for WordPress, I knew email marketing, everyone tells me that's the way to go. I knew I had to pay for ConvertKit before they had the freemium offer, and that was really, you know, and then I was spent. And so you know, on top of traveling around having a toddler, I realized I could just keep putting offers in front of people, I could create a great foundation with my welcome sequence. And I could follow up with people every single week, right? Investing, time sharing, staying top of mind. And people could just buy what you know, as I sold right. And of course, people don't buy when you sell they buy when they're ready. So it actually turned out that was a good strategy because some you know, some folks might buy on week two, and then I bring it up a couple months later. And the folks that had heard about it in January now it's March. Oh yeah, I need that. Now. I'm glad you brought that back up, verse putting it something into a funnel where they hear about it once and I just, you know, keep putting them through series and series and series and they they don't go through the customer journey the way I think They will. And because for a funnel to work in a sales funnel to work, you've got to have your customer research like down, you really have to know your person, right. And you really have to be updating things, right? If I make a reference to Justin Timberlake. And next year, he does something that gets him cancelled, I need to go back in that funnel and take JT out, right? You know, and that's just yeah, that's just a very simple example it might be. And with newsletters, it allows your brand to evolve. And so you can try out different offers, especially in the beginning, if you're listening, and you're like, Yeah, you know, I have my email, you know, I've got a couple people on it, you know, I don't email consistently, I really caution against just starting a funnel, just start very simply, where you get a very simple welcome sequence together, you, you know, start connecting with your audience through consistent newsletters, and we can talk about how to do that in a second. And just start putting offers out there because remember, I said, the email staircase, when you've got a list full of friends, you can basically just ask them, Hey, do you want this? When I did my $9 a month membership, I had no idea if it was gonna work. I literally the subject line was, can I have $9?

My favorite of like, all time, oh, good, we'll

have to put it in the show notes. So people can see just how freaking simple it was. And, you know, I literally was like, I don't know, I think this is what you need. But I'm not going to spend, you know, 2011 hours figuring, you know, building it out building the funnel to see, you know, if I can get 100 people in to see if it works. No, I'm just going to ask people, if they buy, then I'm going to build it out. And maybe I'll build out a funnel for it later. And to this day, I just took that can I have $9 and put it at the end of my welcome sequence. And like that's, you know, quote, unquote, my funnel for it. And I have, you know, of course, I have affiliates. But at the end of the day, less than a year into that membership, I have nearly 1000 people in it. That's just from talking about it over and over in my newsletters asking other people to talk about it. So you don't necessarily need a funnel.

Yeah. So many things to say. But like, I, I like, for especially people beginning. Yeah, it's so like, I just want to say like how true it is everything you just said about you have to know your audience or customer, your clients. So well before like before you build the funnel, so you know what you're building. And then the work it takes to put in is like, it's, it's easy, I think everything, especially digital marketing wise, because the people who are selling the software make it so that's their job is to make it simple. They want to onboard people, they're like, you can build a funnel as easy as 20 minutes. And just because you created a login in 20 minutes doesn't mean the funnel is done in 20 minutes doesn't mean it's gonna work doesn't mean that all the tech all that stuff. But they're like job is to make it like a minute and 20 minutes. And like everything you said, I mean, emails so much more easier. And especially if you're not like 100% confident on what you're doing, like don't waste that time or money. Just go with email, like, why waste all that stress? What I particularly loved about your email, subject line, and I'm pretty sure when I read it I like I rarely will like laugh out loud, you know, like audibly when I said, but like, it just made me crack up because it's like $9, because it's such a pattern interruption to see like you, especially if you're even remotely into the marketing, you're like, side of things you're like, you just see things you're like, Oh, this is like how they're doing this, like you kind of see through the lines of how someone is asking for something. If it's $9. And then for you to say can I have $9? It's like, yeah, like that's it. That's it, that's all you like, Oh, let me go get my card, you know?

Yeah. What's your Venmo? Yeah, for me, it was also like the audacity? Course, you know, I'm not asking for, you know, $900. But if you have something low ticket, and I wouldn't even have been experiment, why not? But yeah, as far as that subject line goes, for me, every subject I write is for a friend. So I think of all my subscribers as I'm really trying to make personal connections. That's, you know, and I really think of like, my products are not for selling, they're for serving, right. And so when I write subject lines, I think of it as a friend like if I know Dylan personally, right, what would I literally write to him? What would what would I write to him? And what would the subject line be? It would be something much more casual than if I'm writing a blog post? Or I'm trying to get instagram SEO all of a sudden, because that's the thing, right? Yeah, um, I'm gonna write in a different way. And if you think about it, what I talked about at the top of the hour, you know, the same way you act in the mailbox, it's the same way as the inbox Then you're gonna write those subject lines much easier. And for me, I, like when I sell a product when I have a new product, you know, I go to my other business friends, and I think, hey, what do you think of this idea? And sometimes I'll, I'll literally be like, hey, I want you to buy this. Right? Like I, I created this just for you. Like I was thinking about you, Camille, you Lance when I when I created this, so why wouldn't the subject be? Can I have $9? You know, not only does it stand out, but that's literally, if I needed $9 That's literally the exact words I would use to ask my buddy.

Yeah, and it's in, in the rest of the email. So someone's just like, oh, is this like a donation thing? But like reading the email, it's like, it's it connected in such a way of like, oh, no, you built this thing. You're doing this thing that's worth way more than $9, of course. And then it makes the $9 seem utterly, like, small in comparison to the value that you get. Yeah. And then it's like, at that point, it's like, this is worth more than $9. So it's a no brainer, of course, and, and then reading it, it's not like oh, just can I have $9 Here's the donate button, go fund me for my new like Amazon addiction or something. It's like, way more valuable than that. And I just was like, this is incredible. And it just made me love you even more. Because it just broke my pattern, but also like so real and honest. And it's like saying those things about email marketing in 2022 don't seem all that common. You know, all the language in terms I'm using with you. I feel like aren't caught like it's not just stuff you always talk about

on and laugh. So much, Dylan, I want yeah, like, if you learn nothing else from Liz Wilcox, I just want everyone to know, like, email doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be gross. It doesn't have to be this big thing. It can be fun. I think I wrote about this on Instagram today. Like, what would this look like? If it was fun? I always asked myself two questions like, whether I'm writing an email building a product, you know, doing a podcast episode like this, like, number one was, what would this look like if it was easy? Because people complicate stuff we just

do. I mean, I never do. But I've heard of people doing

that. Yeah, I'm sure. And then number two, what would it look like? Most fun? Because those are two different things. Like for me, what would it look like if it was easy? Oh, well, I would delegate it. Oh, well, I don't have enough money for that. So that's that way that follow up question I created. What would it look like if it was fun? Yeah. Well, if it was fun today, Dylan and I would talk about we'd open the episode within sync. I would wear my crazy headband and shirt. Yeah, I would, you know, I would have my insync mug and I can laugh, right? And suddenly we're off to the races and we're connecting right? And your foot. Your idea of fun is not Liz's idea of fun. It's not Dylan's idea of fun. Yeah. So that's where you know, you can separate yourself. And with my membership, a lot of people say like, who I got, I got your email template. And I felt like I was able to use it. But it actually sounded like me. And that's, that's one of the things I love the most because I don't I want you to get on my list, like Dylan says, and yes, I want you to steal all my emails, I want you to steal my subject lines, I want you to take everything that I write and use it like that's the purge words, though. It's very meta, right? And so take it use it as your own. But if you ask yourself those questions, and you really, you know, I don't know, look into yourself, and you know, you know a lot about your personality, you know, you you know, oh, Liz uses Will Smith, what am I going to use? It's gonna make it so simple to translate into your own business.

Yeah. And the answer to that question is Jada, obviously. Obviously, obviously, um, that is beautiful. And again, I don't know if I've ever talked about you know, marketing and beautiful in the last seven years. This combo is just like, but what, but that's what I love about you and what you do and how you serve in question for you. Because this is I've done like marketing coaching for years, too. And one of the things that most commonly thing I see asked around email is, people go awesome. I want to email but I ain't got nobody on my email list. What's the point of emailing if there's nobody there? And they might and they'll be like, oh, yeah, I have 15 subscribers, or maybe they have like none, but sometimes they're at 15. I got nobody.

Well, if I was in a room with 15 people, I would feel like the shes like, Okay, I've got 15 leads here like 15 people on the screen doesn't seem Like a lot when you look at, you know, these big marketers, you know, you look at Will Smith's account, he's got millions of folks, right? Um, but side note to that, like, Will Smith, depending on how many followers I know he's got millions but like, Why doesn't he have a billion like he's a movie star right? Like it takes work right no matter where you're at and who you are. But yeah, so at the end of the day, like if you've got two people on your list, and one of them is your mom, like, let's work that other one. And this is what I say about email marketing. And I, I talked about this a little bit like really, truly connecting with your subscribers and using all those emails, right, like investing your time sharing in a relatable way. Email is one to many. But when you do those things, and you open up the conversation, it can become one to one. And that's where the customer research comes in. That's where the friendships build. That's where, you know, Dylan gets me on his podcast, and he's like, how do you get me to open your emails? Like, you know, and it's because I've opened up that conversation, I'm willing to answer emails. And this is so beautiful using Dylan's word. When you have a small list, when you just have your getting person, like literally one person at a time, you can literally say things like, Hey, I'm just building this. I seriously only have 20 people on this list, but I'm dedicated to doing XYZ for you. hit reply and let me know x right? And keep these questions very simple at first, yes or no questions in your welcome sequence? Like for me, it's do you have an email list? Yes or no? Right? Or, you know, do you have more than your mom on your email list? Yes or no, that person knows immediately the answer, you've got to ask yes or no questions as for at first, and then as you build your list as it gets older and bigger, you can ask those more open ended questions like today. My email list is probably about two and a half years old. I literally asked the question what's up? No, seriously, hit reply. Like it's up. You

say what the heck is up? I knew my mind. I said, what is up? That's what it is.

Okay, Dylan might know me better than I think. I, I think I did write f and then I erased it and put Hell yeah, but anyway, um, I got something like 20 replies in like 20 minutes. But that's because I have that relationship. But as you're building it out, keep it small. Keep those questions really simple, right? Like, what are if you're a crochet blogger, do you have crochet needles yet? hit reply? Yes, mean? Yes or No? If you're like a real estate agent, have you ever bought a house? hit reply? Yes or no? Very, very simple questions. And do that consistently. Build it up? I hear so many Oh, I've tried to send out a survey. I've tried to ask questions. It doesn't work. Well, it's that tick tock. Didn't you know what's that? is done it? It's like, Have you have you tried every week? You know, have you? Are you emailing every week? Are you consistent? Are you telling people you expect them to reply? Right? You guys know what audio? I'm talking? Um, but, you know, you just have to keep going with it. And then as far as building your list, I, I'm happy to give some tips on that, too. Yeah,

yeah. I mean, just like a couple, like, super high level on, like, what you've been seeing these days of, of how to even get someone on your list, like, you know, I think is simple if you keep everything simple, but I'm just saying,

I keep it simple. Yeah, so basically, what you have to know about list building, is it's basically

building or list

building. List. That's funny, I've never made that connection in my head, I'm gonna have to ponder on that use it somewhere. Um, what you have to know is list building and visibility are basically the same thing. The more people know who you are, the more you market, the more you listen to Dylan and his strategies, the more your list is going to build. And in order to make that true, you've got to have the right sort of like freebie opt in some kind of incentive to get people on your list. So think about, you know, what is the customer journey? What's the very last thing if I'm working with Dylan? And you know, I'm picturing like, a graduation ceremony like what would Dylan say he was able to do at the end, and then I take it all the way back was that first baby step I want you to know, and that becomes your freebie so So you've already got that. Let's put it in the right place your homepage and you can go to Liz Wilcox, calm and see that I've got it five or six times. Beautiful website, by the way, but yeah, thank you. Thank you. I paid A lot of money for it shouldn't go Christy Cooper, she's great. Um, so you've got to have it in three to five places like, and your copy should be around getting people to sign up for that list. If your main thing is I'm going to go all in on this list building, listen, don't say, you know, it's lucrative, then it's got to be on there three to five times your about page, you can go to my copy and you can read it. And you can see, I'm literally I'm telling a story about me about you, but I'm leading you into, Hey, your first step should be this freebie, right? And so as you go out, you do that visibility, you build up your Instagram content, maybe you're on tick tock, you're in Facebook groups, you know, you're you're doing podcasts, right? As people start to go to your website, it's very easy for them, they know exactly what to do. They're gonna sign up for your list, right? Dylan's going to ask me at the end of this podcast, I'll show you exactly how it's done, right to get you onto my email list. And so for me, personally, I make sure that's all set up, I make sure my freebie makes sense. And then for me, I just, you know, I post on my Instagram Stories is my social media strategy. And then I get on podcasts in 2021, I was on over 70, virtual stages, a few different in person things. But for me, that's my visibility strategy. You might go with Facebook groups, or I'm sorry, Facebook ads, you might you know, let's say Dylan and I do a link exchange. You know, I write an email that shares his freebie. He writes an email that shares mine, you can do those types of things. But really, you have to think about list building as a visibility thing.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's huge and make sense. And to tie it to how I even found out about you is I was looking for, I was like, you know, I want to find some podcasts on copywriting. So I was looking up and I found a pod. I think it was the copywriters club I think it's called the only episode I've listened to of their podcast was the one you were on. Like, I literally was like, scrolling back, I happen to stop on yours. Because it wasn't like the day come as an older one. I was like, just going I was like, What's one, I want to listen, I don't know what it was a headline or what it was, but something about yours made me listen to it. And then I'm just like, lose. And I haven't listened to another podcast episode of that. Because I was like, I'm good. I got I got I got my Liz and I'm good to go. But that visibility is like, you know, it's it shows up in ways that it's almost hard to quantify, because there's no way you could have been like, I'm gonna go on this podcast. And then, you know, someone's gonna find it because it'll be the only episode they listen to of this podcast, and then find me and contact me and then purchase like, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's, that's crucial. visibility's makes a lot of sense. And I love that. Well, like you mentioned. I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm on Team, Liz. I have been since I heard your voice. But how do you work with people these days? Has it changed? Because I know you were doing like, I don't know. You're not You're not doing like, one on one work anymore. Right? Are you are right,

correct. Dylan, I just want to say You are flattering me when you said Oh, since I heard your voice, because my family always makes fun of me because my voice is so nasal Lee. And also, when I did all those podcast episodes in 2021, I unknowingly was going through a really bad food allergy. So my voice was like really shaking a lot sometimes. And I was like, Pashley sound nervous, but I just don't know what I ate. So thank you. Thank you. Um,

I love I love your voice. And I love like, because because it's like, different and I don't know, I don't I think my own voice isn't easily. And it's always shocking to me when people are like, oh, yeah, it was my A. I like I still don't like the sound of it. Um, and so maybe, maybe I subconsciously identify with how you maybe aren't Oh. Oh,

that's so funny. And so let this be like as you listen, and we both complained about our nasal. Let it be inspiration that despite nasal voices, we're both using podcast strategy. So whatever you're insecure about, like, just go for it. So look at my brand photos. And if you're watching like snippets of this recording, you'll see I have a headband on. A lot of people think that's just like, oh, that's Liz. That's part of her branding. Well, I started because I have a forehead insecurity. I think my forehead is really big. And so when I started a YouTube Live show, back in the day with my other blog, I was like, I have to wear a headband because I can't stop staring at my own. So you know, like, you never know what those little insecurities are for people that you might be looking up to or learning from or think it must be so easy for them. So As to show why insecurity

when let me just share an insecurity just to match because I don't be like, oh, let's share an insecurity. Why don't you share an insecurity? of insecurity? I drive a Porsche? No, just kidding. I don't drive I always say like, men who drive Porsches are like insecure. But I let's see, let me find Well, I mean, there's multiple I mean, I make a whole list. But yeah, I think the voice is huge. And I think it's a food allergy. Oh, it is. I think pretty sure it's a food allergy. I haven't got tested either. But on a lot of my videos, I don't think I have it right now. But on a lot of my videos, my nose is red. And I think it's from a food allergy. Do you get that you?

Oh my gosh, Dylan and I are having a pig bunnies right here. Coming at you live so I one of my insecurities is my nose is just randomly sometimes read mine too connected it to my food. I'm allergic to a lot of things. So we might have to edit this out. Or maybe your people are into it. Um, yes, please. I'm Oh, amen. I'm allergic to like we eat any kind of nuts. Yes. That's like all nuts like Trina. It's peanuts. wombs, all that nonsense. tomatoes, Chicken. I recently on I'm allergic to avocado, Joe's cinnamon, I mean, just a lot of stuff. And sometimes everyone and I thought it was because I live in Florida. And so I just need to learn more sunscreen. But even right now I've got like this little red dot here. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna Google this and doing thank you so much insecurity.

Because I was like, well film these videos. I film like social media videos, usually in the afternoon. And that's I don't usually eat later in the day. And every time I go to record it be bright red. And then one. I was like, but I can't not record so like, put it out. And then I asked in my stories on Instagram. Is my nose right all the time and afternoon? No, it was like the pizza. But someone that was like, oh, yeah, my son has that issue. And it was food allergies. Like oh, so I would just record it anyways. And I'm just like, you know, the red nose is here to stay like, I tried everything. I'd be like, put my head in the freezer. You know, then just whatever. Then I'm just like, if you see me at the red nose. That's the Rudolph signature right there. So MMB we're just gonna be

Oh, whoa, whoa, everybody. Christmas is? Yeah. Oh my gosh, thank you for sharing that because I haven't eaten yet today. And I feel like I'm pretty even skin. But yeah, there's some times I'm like, wow, my I look like a boozer. A little red.

I know. But, um, I totally know what you mean. Like totally know, to me. I'm like, I don't I drink a couple times a year like, but I love candy or I love like food that probably is food allergy and then yeah, and then an afternoon so but to I forget what the original question was asked you, but working with you. Working with you.

We work how can we work with the one and only Liz? Well? Yes. So um, yeah, like Dylan said, I did retire my copywriting services. So Dylan found me through the copywriter Club, which is a great episode, I go a lot more in depth on the RV travel blog, I think on that episode. But yeah, so I retired my copy services. I only started copywriting because I knew it was quick cash flow. And I knew email marketing like was my zone of genius. Like Don said, I tried to make everything really simple for people. I know everyone's overwhelmed. And you know, I hate when you buy a five step program. And it turns out to be 25 steps, right? I really don't want that for people, I really want you to just get going and get build that momentum. So that's what I wanted to go hard in. But I needed the, you know, I needed the capital first. So I just retired that I was able to save up an entire year salary. I'm really excited. Thank you so much. But nowadays, my main thing is my membership. So the can I have $9 email we were talking about earlier. It's a $9 membership where I literally write an email template for you every single week and give you a video walkthrough of how you can use it. So no matter what kind of business you're in, you can or what kind of tone what kind of personality you have. You can really see yourself in the emails and you can see how it can work for you. I find that you know a lot of swipe files are just that their swipe files, right. It's like oh, this was written for Liz Wilcox for LIS walk Praxis people. I don't know how it can work for Dylan. Right? And so I didn't want that. And so when you go into the membership, I literally send you every Monday morning an email with that video walkthrough. I give you a detailed template skeleton outline and two swipes from two different businesses and two different tones. So the longer you're in it, the more you can see These patterns of email that psychology, how it all works together, how you can build the follower, friend, customer, you know, etc, etc. And it's only $9 a month. Like I said, when I started, I had $0 I, but everything seems so complicated. Yeah. And so if that's where you're at with your email marketing, um, you know, that's why I created the membership for you. And it's literally called Email Marketing membership. Seo. Right.

I love it. Yeah. And that's one thing I love about your everything about Liz is, because it's like you sometimes we get in stuff, and it's like, well, that's the $9. But if you want the real thing, and it's like, you're just so transparent and raw and honest. And it's so inspiring, because it's like, I can do this, I don't feel like you deliver anything that I can't do. But it also feels like just enough of a stretch that it's like, this is going to help me grow, but not so much that I'm like, I don't know if I can do it. It's like, it's like, you're right there. Like, it's so well, that

that's great. That's great to hear. I love that I I really mean it when I say like I'm on a freaking mission to make sure entrepreneurs like can do email. And, you know, I love that you can get in there and get it done without stressing too much about it. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah,

yeah. And I will say, I don't know if I didn't fact check this before I said it. I'm saying it, but I'm pretty sure you are the first person like I've actually purchased something from on the podcast that I'm pretty sure you are like, which is just cool, because I usually just will feature like pretty neutral. But I'm like, No, I've been I purchased. It's like awesome. So definitely check the show notes for Liz. And thank you so much for joining me today, Liz.

Thank you so much Dylan, this was such a pleasure. And I really can't wait to see what everybody does with their email.

Thank you again, Liz for joining me on Digital Podcaster it was a real honor to be able to speak with you. And that's one of the things I love most about this podcast is the chance to connect with people in chat with him for an hour like When else would that happen? Like, I couldn't just hop on zoom with Liz for an hour to connect about email and things that I genuinely enjoy talking about. So that's one of the things one of the many things I love about this podcast is the opportunity to connect with Liz. If you'd like to connect with Liz, make sure to check the show notes. If there's something particularly a particular segment about this episode that you liked, please let me know send an email to hello at Digital podcaster.com. And if you are interested in starting growing or monetizing your podcast, please visit Digital podcaster.com It would mean the world to me if you would take the 60 seconds whatever it takes on Apple podcasts on Spotify to leave a rating and a quick review would mean the world to me it really helps the show out. So yeah, that's all I got for this episode. I'll see you in the next one.